quick question lf fast reply - Guild Wars Forums

Braxton619 · Jul 20, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Hi guys I raptor farm with my A/E and I heard something like leechers make higher drop rate. Anyways, can't you just get 3 heroes and 4 henchies and flag them at shrine? They don't steal drops if there not in range right?

Thanks!

IronSheik · Jul 20, 2009, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Eh, you'd think that, I myself find drops aren't increased with leechers or not.

Sure, things drop more if people are in range, but when they aren't same as solo.

TheodenKing · Jul 20, 2009, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Sigh... don't listen to the stubborn fools in Rata Sum. Go read the wiki article for yourself regarding loot scaling. Read it carefully. Then read it again. Then you will realize that having extra people in your party only affects the following drops: coin pile sizes, and common whites (like saurian bones and white spears, etc). It will not affect the drop rate of golds, purples, tomes, dyes or festival items.

Yes, you heard me. It won't affect the things you care about. So the people gathering up leechers are only wasting time they could be using to kill more raptors.

Next you will ask why so many people are using leechers then if it's a waste of time? Well... it all started when someone noticed nice drops when they did the cave with people in the party. So from this sample size of a few instances, they erroneously concluded that having people with them made the difference.

So they told someone, who told someone... Next thing you know Rata Sum was filled with farmers looking for leechers. Which only perpetuated the myth because anyone new to that farm after that point would see people using leechers. So they assumed it was helpful.

For a quick lesson on statistical significance, I will point out that a random sample has to have at least 30 to be relevant. So if you want to prove or disprove the leecher value for yourself... do 30 successful runs with leechers, then 30 without. Keep track of the exact drops on each run. When you complete all 60 runs, you can calculate the results and decide for yourself. Now a larger sample size could be more relevant, but 30 is the minimum. you can't get a black dye on your 2nd run with leechers and conclude that black dyes drop more often with a party.

Voodoo Rage · Jul 20, 2009, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Thank you! I am always banging a drum in Rata trying to explain the concept of selective memory. People with a party "remember" having great drops. It's like the people in emergency rooms "remembering" that they are busy when the moon is full. I've run TONS of numbers on raptor farming and there is indeed absolutely no statistical increase in income by dragging along a full party and yes you waste a bunch of time that you could be farming (and have to deal with the people in your party distracting you with questions about your build, technique, etc...).

subarucar · Jul 20, 2009, 05:00 AM // 05:00

I dont mind letting people tag along for free rep points, but i dont stand around in town for 20 mins waiting to make a full party of leechers as some do. I notice no difference in drops.

Braxton619 · Jul 20, 2009, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Thanks guys for fast replys! And I receive 7-10 drops every run with 1 para runner and sin... although the para doesn't steal my drops because once i get to cave and cast harmony and haste i flag him far away so he isnt in range

EDIT: Me with Para Runner:

Icy The Mage · Jul 20, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Yah, as long as heroes aren't in your SoI (Sphere of Influence, aka you can click on their name) then they will not get a share of your drops.

Quaker · Jul 21, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

The funny thing about the people who look for leechers is that, if it were even true, heroes & henchies would work just as well. So it's doubly senseless to stand around looking for leechers.

jray14 · Jul 21, 2009, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

Sigh... don't listen to the stubborn fools in Rata Sum. Go read the wiki article for yourself regarding loot scaling. Read it carefully. Then read it again. Then you will realize that having extra people in your party only affects the following drops: coin pile sizes, and common whites (like saurian bones and white spears, etc). It will not affect the drop rate of golds, purples, tomes, dyes or festival items.

Actually the wiki is woefully lacking when it comes to documenting loot logistics. As far as I know (but correct me if I'm wrong), it says nothing about the effect of radar range other than in the unofficial wiki:
"To be eligible for a drop, you must have been in radar range of the monster when it dies."
(http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Loot)

So what happens when players or henchmen/heroes are parked outside the radar range while you're killing? Neither wiki gives a clue. But according to some extensive tests I've done measuring drop rates of collectables, having hero/hench parked outside radar has no effect, but having humans parked outside radar proportionally increases the drop rates of collectables (for humans in radar)! Apparently collectable drop rates are scaled according to number of humans in the party with no adjustment for distance.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar effect for other kinds of drops too, but I haven't collected any data on them. So leeching is legit, at least for collectable drops like Saurian Bones, as long as the human players remain outside the radar. So maybe all those "LF leechers" spammers in Rata Sum are just Saurian Bone aficionados preparing for the eventual day when Nicholas wants them, lol.

IronSheik · Jul 21, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Pretty sure collectibles are exempt from loot scaling. I.e. Same amount will drop with 1 person in the party as if there were 8.

I doubt I'd get 15 skale claws from 20 Skales if they weren't.

jray14 · Jul 22, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

So perhaps this statement in the unofficial wiki is wrong then:

With loot scaling, players receive an amount of normal drops (common and uncommon rarity items, collectable drops, gold, common crafting materials) proportionate to the size of their party as compared to a full party.

(http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Loot...g#Loot_scaling)

Voodoo Rage · Jul 22, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

So perhaps this statement in the unofficial wiki is wrong then:

With loot scaling, players receive an amount of normal drops (common and uncommon rarity items, collectable drops, gold, common crafting materials) proportionate to the size of their party as compared to a full party.

(http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Loot...g#Loot_scaling)

Yes, but doesn't that only apply to party members who are in range? (not shaded out on the party list).

Improvavel · Jul 22, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Pretty sure collectibles are exempt from loot scaling. I.e. Same amount will drop with 1 person in the party as if there were 8.

I doubt I'd get 15 skale claws from 20 Skales if they weren't.

I've done hundreds of luxon assassins outside zo shrivos channel runs. I kill 25 luxons assassins + the boss every single run.

If collector items would be exempt of loot scalling I would surely get more that just 2-4 luxon pendents per run.

BrettM · Jul 22, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

But according to some extensive tests I've done measuring drop rates of collectables, having hero/hench parked outside radar has no effect, but having humans parked outside radar proportionally increases the drop rates of collectables (for humans in radar)! Apparently collectable drop rates are scaled according to number of humans in the party with no adjustment for distance.

That's rather astounding. So, instead of solo farming for Decayed Orr Emblems, I could increase my drop rate by taking along a character from my second account and parking him at the start? I'm going to have to give that a try, as soon as I advance one of the characters on that account to unlock Prophecies HM.

If the news spreads, we could soon be seeing "LF Pro Leechers" in every outpost where Halloween and Wintersday collectables are farmed. (Though I have no idea what a "pro" leecher is, or why anyone would want to do it in a place like Ruins of Surmia where they have nothing to gain by it.)

Jul 20, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12	#1
Braxton619 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2008 Profession: A/W	quick question lf fast reply Hi guys I raptor farm with my A/E and I heard something like leechers make higher drop rate. Anyways, can't you just get 3 heroes and 4 henchies and flag them at shrine? They don't steal drops if there not in range right? Thanks!

Jul 20, 2009, 05:04 AM // 05:04	#6
Braxton619 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2008 Profession: A/W	Thanks guys for fast replys! And I receive 7-10 drops every run with 1 para runner and sin... although the para doesn't steal my drops because once i get to cave and cast harmony and haste i flag him far away so he isnt in range EDIT: Me with Para Runner: Last edited by Braxton619; Jul 20, 2009 at 05:22 AM // 05:22..

Jul 20, 2009, 04:29 AM // 04:29	#2
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	Eh, you'd think that, I myself find drops aren't increased with leechers or not. Sure, things drop more if people are in range, but when they aren't same as solo.

Jul 20, 2009, 04:38 AM // 04:38	#3
TheodenKing Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: DoA Guild: Dark Order of Retarded Knights (doRk) Profession: N/Me	Sigh... don't listen to the stubborn fools in Rata Sum. Go read the wiki article for yourself regarding loot scaling. Read it carefully. Then read it again. Then you will realize that having extra people in your party only affects the following drops: coin pile sizes, and common whites (like saurian bones and white spears, etc). It will not affect the drop rate of golds, purples, tomes, dyes or festival items. Yes, you heard me. It won't affect the things you care about. So the people gathering up leechers are only wasting time they could be using to kill more raptors. Next you will ask why so many people are using leechers then if it's a waste of time? Well... it all started when someone noticed nice drops when they did the cave with people in the party. So from this sample size of a few instances, they erroneously concluded that having people with them made the difference. So they told someone, who told someone... Next thing you know Rata Sum was filled with farmers looking for leechers. Which only perpetuated the myth because anyone new to that farm after that point would see people using leechers. So they assumed it was helpful. For a quick lesson on statistical significance, I will point out that a random sample has to have at least 30 to be relevant. So if you want to prove or disprove the leecher value for yourself... do 30 successful runs with leechers, then 30 without. Keep track of the exact drops on each run. When you complete all 60 runs, you can calculate the results and decide for yourself. Now a larger sample size could be more relevant, but 30 is the minimum. you can't get a black dye on your 2nd run with leechers and conclude that black dyes drop more often with a party.

Jul 20, 2009, 04:48 AM // 04:48	#4
Voodoo Rage Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sacramento, CA Guild: Geezers Profession: R/	Thank you! I am always banging a drum in Rata trying to explain the concept of selective memory. People with a party "remember" having great drops. It's like the people in emergency rooms "remembering" that they are busy when the moon is full. I've run TONS of numbers on raptor farming and there is indeed absolutely no statistical increase in income by dragging along a full party and yes you waste a bunch of time that you could be farming (and have to deal with the people in your party distracting you with questions about your build, technique, etc...).

Jul 20, 2009, 05:00 AM // 05:00	#5
subarucar Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Zealand Guild: None	I dont mind letting people tag along for free rep points, but i dont stand around in town for 20 mins waiting to make a full party of leechers as some do. I notice no difference in drops.

Jul 20, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38	#7
Icy The Mage Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canada Profession: E/	Yah, as long as heroes aren't in your SoI (Sphere of Influence, aka you can click on their name) then they will not get a share of your drops.

Jul 21, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17	#8
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	The funny thing about the people who look for leechers is that, if it were even true, heroes & henchies would work just as well. So it's doubly senseless to stand around looking for leechers.

Jul 21, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35	#10
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	Pretty sure collectibles are exempt from loot scaling. I.e. Same amount will drop with 1 person in the party as if there were 8. I doubt I'd get 15 skale claws from 20 Skales if they weren't.

Jul 22, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54	#11
jray14 Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC, USA Guild: Ohm Mahnee Pedmay [Hoom]	So perhaps this statement in the unofficial wiki is wrong then: With loot scaling, players receive an amount of normal drops (common and uncommon rarity items, collectable drops, gold, common crafting materials) proportionate to the size of their party as compared to a full party. (http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Loot...g#Loot_scaling)